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2008 BC February 5, 2008

Posted by BittenChick in Dating n' Mating.
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“Back once again for the renegade master!”

Riiiiight. ;-)

Before we begin this edition of “where in bloody hell has BC been?”, I’d like to wish everyone a happy new year, a month overdue! Things have been cray-zay up in here, but I’ll try to get to all of the highlights. When last I wrote, I had just gone out on a date with Dutch, things were entering Sketchville with Dwandy, and Ozzy was … Ozzy. The events that unfolded after my last entry went a little something like this:

Got into a relationship with Dutch, which meant going back to friends-only status with Dwandy and Ozzy. The eH and Match profiles were canceled and everything was on the up and up … Until about two weeks shy of Christmas when things were decidedly beginning to cool off with Dutch. I proposed taking a “break” over the holidays.

A series of lackluster texts in early January confirmed that Dutch and I were over. Ozzy proposed going on a date, thus tentatively beginning a relationship that lasted about three weeks … During which my feelings towards Ozzy weren’t advancing past the “affectionate friends” stage, at which point I told him we had to abandon all attempts at dating and really go back to being friends. At this point, he tells me that he’s fallen in love with me. Code Red!

After about a week of not being in touch, I called Ozzy and he says he’s “facing reality” and moving on. I commence crossing my fingers … And then last night Dwandy takes me out for Thai food, talks about “Thai-ing” me up (and other groan-worthy puns!), and decides that he might just be ready for us to “date” after all, which I don’t recall suggesting or agreeing to.

Have I mentioned that it’s been a crazy year thus far? ;-)

Now let me backtrack a little. I’ve barely mentioned Dutch on this blog, and perhaps that should have been my first indicator that something was amiss. By all accounts he’s a cool guy — good looking, good interests, good sense of humor, good chemistry, good sex (ahem) … But “good” is only good — a lackluster version of great, wonderful, fantastic, amazing, etc. There was no reason not to like Dutch, but not much of an impulse to fall in love either. And this was pretty much mutual when I brought it up — a phone call that was initiated by what I’ll call the “turning point” in our relationship. File this under “Guys, Don’t Do This”:

Dutch and I had plans to meet up after his company’s Christmas dinner (yes, it was a “significant others are welcome” affair that I was not invited to, and I was actually relieved by this fact). The party was supposed to end by 8pm and was being held at a restaurant less than five miles from my place, so Dutch was going to come by right afterward. But by the time that 9:30pm rolled around and I hadn’t heard from him, I decided to take a page straight from Sherry Argov’s book and make other plans. What’s that, you say? I should have been patiently and placidly sitting idle by the phone all night? Oh helllllll no. Things run late sometimes, I completely understand. But there’s no excuse for not sneaking away for a minute and sending me a “really sorry, running late, try tomorrow?” text. So I made other plans, and not 15 minutes later … Well, it went a little something like this:

Dutch (text): Sorry for the delay, should be done in about 10 minutes or so.
BittenChick (text): Waited till 9:30 but ended up making other plans. Hope the party was good times.
Dutch (voicemail, 10 minutes later): Hey, I’m leaving now but I got your text so I guess you’re busy. I’ll call you tomorrow. Good night.

Tomorrow ended up being three days from his message, so that should tell you something. When we finally did chat he apologized repeatedly for not getting in touch sooner, but we ended up not seeing each-other again before the “let’s take a break” chat that happened a few days later. Relationships, especially in their infancy stages, can be tricky when it comes to obligations you have towards each-other. But I firmly believe that there has to be a mutual respect there, and it’s always obvious when it’s missing. And to be honest, it was nice not having to deal with the awkwardness that usually accompanies “Our First Holiday!” — an occasion that I always seem to overcompensate for (with good intentions, but I never know how much to spend, how many gifts are appropriate, etc). So out went Dutch and in swooped Ozzy, and against my better judgment I gave our relationship a second (third? fourth?) go-round.

But dear, sweet, innocent Ozzy unequivocally refuses to “play the game” — the game being the psychological dance that keeps things intriguing. Whereas I was looking for a spicy tango, he was two-stepping all up in my business, even dropping the “marriage” and “love” bombs as casually as one would order from a menu. I know, I know … There’s not enough thread in the free world to weave a red flag big enough! In the meantime, Dwandy had been on the fringes in the flag-free Friends Zone, but he’s very wise to “the game” and we didn’t have much contact following our bowling-night shenanigans until January rolled around. He had also eschewed eHarmony but not for a relationship — turns out he’d become a fan of freebie site OKCupid and had landed himself a college-aged honey who lives an hour away and likes to talk about what her future babies will look like. Why he tells me these things, I have no idea — he knows it will all be used as fodder for my immense amusement! He’d been giving Miss BabyMomma the slip and was looking for a night of, ah, mental stimulation — so we decided to meet up. And while I appreciated how appealing I must have looked in light of the alternative, I’m pretty well convinced that Dwandy and I are meant to be flirty friends at best.

And that brings me to now — the Great Dateless Wonder, and damn happy about it! I might give eHarmony another go in the next month or two, but I’m no hurry. In the meantime, Scott of the excellent eHarmony Cracked blog has asked me if I’d like to provide some female commentary for his upcoming posts, so look for my “pearls of wisdom” (ha!) sometime soon!

Cheers,
BittenChick ♥

Comments»

1. DeeGee - February 14, 2008

I have to respond to Bittenchick’s reaction [on Scott’s eHarmony’s Cracked page] to when she suggested that, after a lackluster date, she and the guy she had that date with could “still be friends.”

BC, this is the LAST thing a guy wants to hear when a woman is not interested in pursuing with him. We have heard this offer of a “consolation prize” so many times in our dating life that we just don’t want to hear it any more! If it is the woman who is rejecting the man, then she should NEVER make this offer. If the rejectEE makes the offer to the rejectOR, then it may work out. However, the rejectOR must not make the offer to the rejectEE.

Perhaps this is a “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus” thing, but men just do not want to be “friends” with women after they have been rejected by them. They want to date the woman or have nothing to do with them if they have been rejected by them after pursuing a relationship.

I have actually tried to be “just friends” with a few women after they rejected me, but very quickly realized that it never works and is little more than a con game for a softer and more gradual letdown. Even if I rejected the woman and she made the offer (and I stupidly accepted), it still usually did not work.

Please, PLEASE, Bittenchick, do NOT make that offer to “still be friends” with a guy after you ahve rejected him. It is the LAST thing we want to hear! If he offers, then accept it at your own risk.

2. Scott Grey - February 14, 2008

I gotta agree with DeeGee – if you’re dealing with a frustrated chump, they’ll almost always read, “Let’s be friends” as placating. (Quality guys? Maybe not.)

Better strategies that I’ve used? (Yes, women can react the same way guys can to LJBF)

Wait awhile.

A week later, acknowledge the mutual feeling (it may not be mutual, but give him/her the benefit of coming out with class) that a relationship isn’t in the cards, but…

A) “I’ve got a friend . . .”, and set him up. Hopefully, he’ll reciprocate.

B) “I thought you might be interested in meeting some of my friends. I’m having a party/gettogether/ some friends and I are catching a show, and you could join us/ etc.”

Even then, the odds are a little less than 50/50. The more desperate s/he is, the less likely.

3. BittenChick - February 14, 2008

In response to DeeGee:

That’s interesting! I don’t know if it’s a case of “different strokes for different folks” or it really is a Mars/Venus dichotomy, but my experiences have been completely different.

Quite a few of my male friends were at one time dates where the romantic chemistry wasn’t there, or relationships that fizzled out and ended amicably. One of us suggested friendship, and in most cases it has worked out great. (With that spicy kick of sexual tension that always makes things fun, haha!) I can see that some women use the “let’s be friends” thing to soften the chop of the guillotine, but don’t assume that the suggestion is always a placating one! Some of us (*waves*) may just think you’re an awesome person despite the lack of attraction. :-)

You said: “If the rejectEE makes the offer to the rejectOR, then it may work out. However, the rejectOR must not make the offer to the rejectEE.” I haven’t found this to be the case personally; in my experience, suggesting friendship to someone who’s just rejected me comes across as desperate and needy. I’d much rather have a guy say “hey, the chemistry isn’t there but we could be great friends — what do you think?” This kind of honesty is refreshing and welcome, provided that it’s genuine (and again, in my experience, it usually is).

But then you said: “Even if I rejected the woman and she made the offer (and I stupidly accepted), it still usually did not work.” So really, it hasn’t worked out well for you in either direction? That’s a shame, because my guy friends rock my socks and are way cooler than most chicks I’ve known! Maybe you just need a more optimistic outlook? If you assume “it will never work out” or “it’s a con game”, then you’ll only get what you’re expecting. There’s a fine line between being savvy and being suspicious, but I think knowing what you know, you’ll be able to sense if she’s BS-ing with you. Don’t assume the worst until she makes you think otherwise — we’re not *all* devious vixens, honest! ;-)

4. BittenChick - February 14, 2008

To Scott:

I appreciate that you made the distinction between “frustrated chump” and “quality guy”, because you’re absolutely right — there’s a big difference between them! I’m usually good at spotting the chumpy type, but occasionally I misfire and I think that’s what happened with Mister “I don’t need anymore friends”. Oh well, his loss! ;-)

Has the “let me set you up with a friend” strategy really worked for you? Man, that one backfired on me hardcore! I went out with a guy a few times, there weren’t any sparks, so we mutually decided to be friends and everything was going fine, until I casually mentioned that I knew a girl I thought he’d like and I offered to introduce them. He immediately twisted my words and started going on and on (via instant messenger) about how I was just taking pity on him and that he wasn’t that desperate and blah blah. Yikes! Maybe we just have to chalk it up to guys reacting to situations differently than girls do, I don’t know. I guess there’s a reason that the Mars/Venus guy has sold a gajillion books after all!

The LJBF thing is tricky, that’s for certain, but I don’t think it’s a death knell. I just think maybe the problem isn’t in in the suggestion, but rather in the women who are suggesting it. I think we should start a new online dating service — genuine, cool, unfucked up people need only apply! ;-)

5. DeeGee - February 14, 2008

You said: “Maybe you just need a more optimistic outlook? If you assume ‘it will never work out’ or ‘it’s a con game’, then you’ll only get what you’re expecting.” The first time I heard the LJBF more than 20 years ago, I thought she meant it. The second time, the third time, the tenth time……but it was ALWAYS placating, never serious, always to soften the blow, never to actually WANT to be “just friends”. That is how I went from optimisitic to pessimistic. After hearing it over and over, I began replying like the fellow you described in Scott Grey’s blog: “I don’t need any more friends.” I support that guy’s response 100% and would respond that SAME way if I am told that – and I have done so after the tenth (or 20th…) time I heard the LJBF BS.

And the few women who gave me the LJBF after I rejected them turned out, at best, to soften the landing for them. What sometimes happened was that they ended up using me for all kinds of favors (not sexual, of course) including borrowing money (not a lot of it). Thankfully she moved out of state but I was never able to recover the money.

When I rejected a woman, I would NEVER offer to “just be friends”. I want a clean break from her if I am not going to date her. It avoids all the nagging problems I do not need. From my persepctive, I can’t see how a LJBF would actually WORK for anyone LOL!

Author Bruce Feirstein wrote a book in 1986 titled, “Nice Guys Sleep Alone”. On the first page, it says this: “Dedicated to anyone who’s ever heard the three worst words in the English language: ‘Let’s be friends.” On the second page, it says this: “…And to anyone who’s had the intelligence to respond: ‘That’s nice – but at this pont, I don’t need any more friends.” His words are just as true today as they were more than 20 years ago. :o)

6. BittenChick - February 14, 2008

DeeGee, let’s be friends? ;-)

I think we shall have to agree to disagree on this one, but I’m glad you shared your experience as it gives me more insight on how the suggestion might be misinterpreted in the future. I think that it’s really important to consider someone’s feelings when making the “potential date / future friend” transition, and hopefully placating stays out of the equation. I truly am sorry to hear that it’s never worked out for you, because I think you’re really missing out! We of the female persuasion make excellent friends, if I do say so myself!

As they say, your mileage may vary. And lest you think that I have untoward designs on my male friends, let me assure you that any and all flirtation is strictly mutual — although they often don’t seem to believe that I’m onto them! I’ll never forget my delight when I saw the shock on Don Juan’s face after I caught him using a maneuver from “The Art of Seduction”. I thought it was hilarious! Maybe that’s why I’m good with guy friends, they know they can be honest because I’m onto their tricks. *Grin*

7. DeeGee - February 14, 2008

Yes, BC, we can be friends. I did not have a *big* problem with your “we can still be friends” remark as you seemed to be sincere about it. What I took a big exception to was what you said in italics in Scott Grey’s blog about the guy who responded in a way you did not like. His reaction, as you now can see, was totally justified. The remark in particular which irked me was, “What you need is an attitude adjustment!”

It now appears that you have adjusted *your* attitude and will be more cautious when using that awful line. I would appreciate it if you could post something to that effect on his blog and take back the above remark.

As for me, after various times in the 1980s and 1990s having female friends, I have no interest in that any more. I do have a steady ladyfriend, however, but even if I did not, I would still have no regrets about having rid myself of female friends over the years. Female friends “with benefits” is another story, and I have had overall but not totally positive results from that. That, however, is another thread for another time.

8. BittenChick - February 14, 2008

Oh DeeGee, can’t we all just get along? ;-)

I don’t find that his response was “totally justified”, because I was very friendly and genuine about the being friends topic. If he took it in a placating way, then it was an unfortunate bit of misunderstanding on his part. And I actually truncated his response — what he said in full was “Thanks but no thanks. I don’t need any more friends. See ya.” Apparently he was insulted, annoyed, or something — but those were his issues to deal with, not mine. Nothing justified his response to my email, so I fully support thinking that he needed an attitude adjustment. (I never said that to him, by the way — I just let it go.)

I haven’t “adjusted my attitude” about the LJBF thing — I still find nothing wrong with suggesting friendship as long as it’s done in a friendly, genuine way — so I don’t have anything to retract. Sorry DeeGee! I will continue to be friend-ly with matches whom I don’t have romantic chemistry with, and if the past is any indication, it will work out more often than not. And if it doesn’t, oh well! Nothing ventured, nothing lost. :-)

Take care,
BC


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